VELA Podcasts

Join Jason interviewing Mehdi and Barry from Three Shore Development in our last episode of the Polestar Podcast by VELA Wealth. They’re talking about forming a win-win partnership, discipline and planning, entrepreneurship journey, and approaches to dealing with uncertainty.

 

 

About the Guest – Mehdi Shokri

Mehdi is inspired by the desire to create meaningful change through development and is driven by an overarching passion to make neighbourhoods better. He aims to align visually-inspiring environments with sustainable and profitable solutions. To read more, please visit the Three Shore website.

 

About the Guest – Barry Savage

Barry values precision and process. His goal is to take a focused, structured approach to development, and values the methodical process of any project. His passion is to carefully consider all details in order to execute a plan that works for all stakeholders. Inspired by the urban vibrancy of other big cities, Barry is interested in how land use can shape and create homes and communities. To read more, please visit the Three Shore website.

 

About the Host – Jason Boudreau

Jason has built VELA Wealth into an established life and estate planning firm, guiding families as they make meaningful choices at the intersection of life and wealth. Jason’s areas of expertise include intergenerational wealth transfer and estate planning with a focus on advanced insurance-based solutions that incorporate philanthropy and legacy planning. Leveraging these specialties, Jason brings a fresh perspective and outside-the-box thinking to the strategic planning process. To read more, please visit the VELA team page.

 

 

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The Podcast Transcript

 

Jason Boudreau:

Welcome everyone to the Polestar Podcast by VELA Wealth. Today we have two very special guests Mehdi Shokri and Barry Savage, Co-Founders of Three Shores. We’re going to be talking about their entrepreneurial journey and having them share about what led them to where they are today, and then also some look forward to the future. I’ve had the opportunity of getting to know both of them over many years and watching them grow into what is become a very cool company that we are excited to be aligned with. I’ll turn it over to them to give some background on how Three Shores started, evolved and then we’ll get into some details on the life and entrepreneurial journey.

Mehdi and Barry, maybe just one of you can jump in, or even both of you, and just share about the journey to Three Shores and how it became what it is today.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

Sounds good! Well, first of all, thanks for having us on your podcast, Jay. We’re excited to be part of this. So, just kind of jumping into your question on how we started Three Shores. So, roughly seven years ago Barry and I met. I believe in two instances we were meeting without realizing how connected we actually were, but I was looking for somebody to help me out at the time. I was in the capital market space at CBRE with my role being to facilitate finding development opportunities or investment opportunities on behalf of other clients in British Columbia. I just finished selling a high-rise property and a gentleman who had purchased it really needed the expertise to have someone take him through the entitlement process and basically all the way through to construction. Knowing that it was a pretty unique ask, generally, developers are the ones who going to do that in-house, I reached out to one of my contacts, a well-known individual in the industry who right away jumped and said “I got the perfect guy. You need to call him. He’s just left working for a large developer, so you want to connect with him soon because he’ll probably get really busy fast”. So, anyway, that’s how I got the first introduction to Barry. Coinciding with that, I was helping another client of mine sell a site, Barry was on the other side for a developer who wanted to acquire a property that I was selling. Personally, I am very good at finding opportunities, dealing with capital stock, structuring the deal essentially, and Barry was really the one who’s taken it through the process and got things done to see the development through. We both realized that we’re helping some people make a lot of money and we quickly decided we should be doing this together.

 

Barry Savage:

Well, I think that another thing that kind of made us a good fit to be a company is that we have a really complementary skillset. Going through working for other developers, one thing that I noticed is that you do need to have people who have specific skillsets that complement each other because in our industry you have to know the big picture, but you also have to know really detailed information. I think that’s one of the things that makes Mehdi and I a good pair – he’s let’s call it the big thinker and he can see an overall strategy where we want to go and look at it from say forty thousand feet in the air, and my skills are more on the day-to-day detailed stuff. He can come up with a big picture, but then we know we can execute it.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

And I’ll probably add to that. Speaking for myself, I started in the industry as a lone wolf. I quickly realized the importance of building a team and obviously to grow you’re going to need help. I wasn’t always the best at understanding how to ask for help or facilitate help in my early days. I wanted to take on everything myself. A bit of a control freak–still am, but definitely learned quickly that you have to find the right help. I think what made it also very unique for me, at that point in my career things were definitely on the trajectory to be getting really busy for me, but I still really had a tough time finding somebody that I trust and who would actually get things done. I know I’m pretty much a “gut” guy in a lot of instances, and in a minute, I saw how Barry operated to his point, how different he was in so many ways than myself. I think the key thing for us is that we immediately had a connection of trust in what we were both good at. So, I think that really skipped a lot of the questions frankly around how to find a partner and like go through the dating process, we kind of jumped right in there and started working together.

 

Barry Savage:

Well, the other thing is that we both came from well-established careers, both successful at what we do. So, I think we we’re both comfortable knowing what our strengths and weaknesses are, and that helps when you know what lane you’re supposed to be staying in and that you don’t vary from. That’s always the conflict that you have between partners – you have them varying between what the role is within the company. Without sitting and writing down on paper our roles we both just intuitively know what we’re good at and what the other person’s good at and we let them take the ball and run with it and we don’t try to interfere in each other’s business.

 

Jason Boudreau:

So, Three Shores is two years old now, right?

 

Barry Savage:

We’re 7 years old.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

Yes, we went further after that connection was made. We decided that given where we were, still in inner prior roles, we weren’t going to move slowly and steadily, right? I was very aware of the conflict of sort of wearing two hats – being representative of other developers and capital partners that this wasn’t supposed to be something of the gun where we were just going to start taking on the world. So, after a couple of projects, things started to escalate, and it became clear to both Barry and me that it was time to roll all our activities into Three Shores. So, about two years ago we officially enrolled all of our activities.

 

Jason Boudreau:

So, thinking about where you are at today and what you’ve accomplished over the last couple of years since you really went into this, what’s one thing that you are really proud of that stands out for you?

 

Mehdi Shokri:

I’ll jump in. First of all, I think what I’m proud of is that it’s always a tough decision to form a partnership and create a business and obviously put yourself out there as an entrepreneur, but I think what I am proud of is that we’re very thoughtful about why we did this. We’re not dissolute, we didn’t just say okay, we’re going to jump in and we’re going to be developers now on our own even though we could have our egos to go that route because we had very successful track records in what we did. We definitely wanted this to be done in the right way and we wanted to make sure if we were going to do this, ego aside, we weren’t to become the next big developer or we were copying and pasting all the same kind of formulas that are out there to do in the industry. So, I’m proud that we stuck to that. I mean we were quite principled from the beginning, and I think we continue to have that same intention with everybody we talk to. We want to be involved, we want to be the face of this company and we’re committed to frankly not doing deals over the right partnerships and the right projects that just don’t align with why we did this in the first place.

 

Barry Savage:

Well, I would say the thing for me that I’m the most proud of, and it seems a bit of an odd thing, is I’m actually more proud of the stuff that we walk away from than the stuff that we actually do. I think that goes back to both Medi and I, and our experience in dealing with new developers. They inevitably do projects that are way too big for them and they shouldn’t be doing. I think Mehdi and I have the discipline to know what type of project we should do first and what should we do second and how should we grow methodically with purpose. We weren’t ever trying to jump further than we probably could have if we really wanted to push it. I think that this shows all of our partners that we have the discipline to know when to walk away from something and I think that’s important in our industry. People get caught up in doing the biggest and the best thing that they can do and sometimes taking a step back and being a little bit more conservative is the best business plan that you could have.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Yes, that totally makes sense. From business books or articles you read, and podcasts you listen to, you hear about some of the most successful people in the world, whether it’s Elon Mask, Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, and constantly what I hear as a commonality between them is they’re defined by what they say NO to, versus what they say YES to.

 

Barry Savage:

Well, and I think based on my background I used to do big projects such as two hundred plus million dollars projects. We had the discipline to start off doing a thirty-five million dollars project, right? I think a lot of people in our industry would not go back and go on to a small project like that, they would think it’s too small and would be eager to do bigger.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Interesting. So, pulling on that thread a little bit – how would you define success? This can be an individual thing, it can be a joint thing. I’m curious to know as you both are entrepreneurs, you’re in a unique business in real estate development, and obviously have tons of experience. We’re talking about the fact that you’re proud of the fact that you say NO to things, you’re proud of the fact of the discipline you stick to. So, to carry on that, how would you define success then for yourselves?

 

Mehdi Shokri:

Coming back to the purpose of all this, the money was never really the driver, nor was the ego. It was actually about the impact. So, for me, the purpose of what I am living for and some of those bigger philosophical questions really started to come into my mind as I was trying to better understand why I was happy and why I wasn’t happy about the things I was doing in my prior role. When I was committed to moving to Three Shores, I thought I would always tell myself that success will be about the reputation and the acknowledgment from the people that I care most about. That we did things right, we were good stewards, we were good people and built good relationships, had some humility and sincerity and were not just greedy. Again, our reputation would speak for itself after we went down the road years away and reflected on our company. That to me was really what I thought hopefully a successful outcome would look like. And it still is.

 

Barry Savage:

I think I’m along the same lines. The other thing that I would say is that for us our partners are always really important whether it’s our business partners or our consultants who we treat as partners whether it’s the community and the neighborhood that we’re working in. I think for whatever project we’re doing to be successful, all of our partners have to participate and gain from whatever we’re doing. For example, we did not have to put a daycare into the project that we are doing on W 3rd Street, but we thought that was the best thing to do and if that enhances that neighborhood at all, then that is a success.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

It kind of triggered another point that I was thinking of when Barry mentioned partnership. I think in general we were really hopeful that we did not have to entertain whether it was a deal or a partnership that wasn’t completely aligned with the type of people we wanted to work with.  For us in the end, success will be defined by the people we work with. I don’t say from a place of being cheesy about it, I actually mean it. If we start doing things such as working on behalf of partners for the wrong reasons, then that won’t be something I will look back at and say we succeeded in our mission. If we continue to stick to what we said about being aligned, and that might mean we lose some really big opportunities, then I think we’ve succeeded in what we said we were going to do.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Speaking from our experience, obviously, we’ve got a project on the go together, and I really feel like it’s a true partnership with you. You’ve come to us, said that you’ve got this opportunity, and offered to reach out to our network and help bring in the capital, while you’ll take the development on. Then, you are providing these quarterly updates that we’re able to send to our investors. People read them and they feel really good about it. It’s very professional. A lot of what I’ve seen in the development industry and smaller developers in particular around the city or even the province is there isn’t necessarily that level of professionalism, but you seem to have really brought that to the forefront. That to me just instills greater confidence for us as partners, but of course most importantly, for our investors who are partners of ours, right? So, speaking firsthand from experience I can definitely attest to the fact that you have brought that mentality to the forefront.

Just to sort of flip it a little bit, I am curious to know what keeps you awake at night. Because one thing is to talk about all the amazingly positive things that are happening but as a fellow entrepreneur I know they’re things that don’t allow me to sleep every day and I’m curious to hear from you – what keeps you up?

 

Barry Savage:

I would say in the current economic climate it’s protecting our partner’s money that they’ve entrusted to us, right? I mean that’s obviously for every developer it always has to do with the bottom line and in our case, it’s at least for me, it’s no different. It’s trying to do whatever we can to protect not only the equity that we’ve put in projects but to protect the equity that all of our partners have put in.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

I would echo that. Obviously, we’re very mindful of our reputation lasting. What keeps us up at night is also the opportunity that I see in front of us because I think we’re clearly in an environment where those who execute and follow up on what they say are the ones who will see these times. They’ll find the greatest opportunities and how we grow from this. Speaking to Barry’s point about protecting our investor capital and staying true to what we promise in the first place – those are all very top-of-mind realities that we’re dealing with but it’s also things that you can’t control. Accepting that, right? It is hard enough for me personally because as I said before I’m a bit of a control freak still… you try to think of all the various things that can come at you even in whether it’s in the good times or in times there’s more chaos. But it’s definitely a lot of managing expectations that probably I’d say is what keeps me up at night and making sure that you’re doing it the right way.

 

Barry Savage:

Actually, early in my career, one piece of advice that I was given was “if you want to be able to sleep at night you have to let things go”. Sort of what Mehdi said, there are things in our industry that we have absolutely zero control over. Take interest rates, right? Yes, we have no control over that. So, I don’t let that bother me because there’s nothing I can do about it. But what you want to do is you want to be prepared for it and have a plan on how you’re going to react. Those are the things that keep you up at night. But that’s what you’re thinking if someone’s coming in saying you know there’s another 75 basis points coming next month, right? The thing that will keep me up is not those 75 basis points coming up, the thing that will keep me up is do I have a plan on how I’m going to address it?

 

Jason Boudreau:

Yes, yes, that totally makes sense. One of the things that I’m curious about from your perspective is…From my side as an entrepreneur, one thing I’m guilty of is always looking at the horizon and thinking about where do I want to go versus where I’ve come from right?

 

Mehdi Shokri:

Or where you are now…

 

Jason Boudreau:

Yes, right. In the present.

 

Barry Savage:

I’m laughing a bit because that’s Mehdi’s lane. I don’t have to worry about that, I’m just looking at the present and how do I get to tomorrow. How do I get the project to tomorrow and the next day and the next day. I’ll let Mehdi look at the horizon.

 

Jason Boudreau:

It’s interesting to hear you share that because I just came from our office. You know Rob, my business partner. We’ve been involved in strategic planning for next year over the last couple of months and a lot of these conversations come up and it’s a very similar dynamic where I’m out there, sort of being head in the clouds, visionary, seeing things progress in a certain way, and then Rob said to me “Okay, now how we can execute that?”. He can see the vision and all the execution points and so we’ve got this great complementary skill set which I’m obviously very grateful for and that gate that does keep me grounded, right? Because I can always sort of chase the horizon or look at the horizon and sort of not look back to see where we’ve come from or have that eye on the present. That said, I’m curious about you how do you feel relative to what you set out when you decided to really jump in headfirst a couple of years ago into this thing to where you’re at today? How do you feel in the progress that you’ve made thus far and then what are some things you’re looking to accomplish that you haven’t yet?

 

Mehdi Shokri:

I’d be the first to say that I always battle looking forward and how we’re going to grow and all that kind of stuff. Or even looking back and not wanting to repeat maybe mistakes or experiences that I fear happening again. I think our mentality has been really about how we manage what environment we’re in and the journey so far has been really about like Barry alluded to earlier being able to say No right now.

I personally grew up in a world where success was defined by how many deals you did and there is almost a habit that needs to sometimes be broken in my own psyche world. Let’s say the shiny new ball – you don’t want to start chasing it and especially in this environment because as crazy as it is we are now seeing more and more opportunities, more than ever, and fortunately we built a good reputation where we have brokers coming to us now, trusting us and our abilities, telling us about off-market deals and sharing sensitive information about how to kind of structure some of these deals that it’s getting to the point where it’s now time to be able to have the discipline to say No. So, I think right now being committed to understanding that you can’t do everything, and you’ve got to stay focused on how you’re going to get to Barry’s point the next day is really kind of everything for me right now.

 

Barry Savage:

I think all businesses and partners need to have discussions. Mehdi and I set out what our goals would be over the next year. And again, we go back to the discipline, to stick to what that plan was, right?

Forget about a lot of the noise that’s going on but try and stick to what we thought was the best course for us when we were planning ahead and to try and stick to that. So, if we, for instance, in our case if we decided we want to do one wood frame and two concrete projects for this year coming up – that’s what our goal is. What the discipline becomes is what are the two best concrete projects and what is the best wood frame project to stick to, right? I think that’s what we’re trying to do and that’s what we want to do.

 

Jason Boudreau:

That makes sense. In the last couple of years when you really decided to jump in headfirst and you look at where you’re at today. Do you feel like you’re where you want to be, are you ahead of schedule or behind? What do you feel you’re at? Has it evolved?  I’m sure it’s evolved.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

I mean I’m never satisfied. So, I do not know how to answer that question (laughing).

 

Barry Savage:

So, that being said, if we were to look today and go back two and a half years ago when we decided that we’re going to do this full time we’re probably almost exactly where we said we wanted it to be. I think the difference is that we have a lot more opportunities that come forward now we’re picking and choosing the right one. But in terms of the number of projects we set our goal out, we’re pretty close to being right on our original plan. Maybe some stuff shifts maybe by six months or so, but it’s pretty close.

 

Jason Boudreau:

I think that obviously speaks to that discipline mindset that you have brought in – sticking to that plan. That’s really good to hear.

When we talked earlier about how you define success. I know Mehdi you said you are never satisfied or how did you frame it? When you define success and what’s important in your life today and of course look forward, do you feel like you’re successful?

 

Barry Savage:

For me, I think it’s actually too early to define whether you’re successful or not. I think we need to get through the next year or two before you will truly be able to say whether we were successful or not. Because of the projects that we’re doing right now – we haven’t completed one yet, right? We’re getting close on two that are going to be completed early sometime next year. But until you get to that stage I don’t know if you can say you were successful or not.

 

Jason Boudreau:

What about you Mehdi?

 

Mehdi Shokri:

I probably look at it a little differently because again, I come back to the point of not being able to control everything. I try not to look at success so much by what the end result is because some of those things are completely out of your control as to how they end up being successful or not whether it’s for the good or on the opposite side of what success looks like from a financial metric. I think for me I would still say it’s too early only because when I really thought about moving into this space there were a lot of mental health discussions that I was having with some business coaches and counseling and a lot of things, especially through Covid that really opened up my eyes to what success and happiness look like. I think I’m still going through this journey. I think for me as a broker in the Capital Market Space I never really felt like I was completely understood and that was probably more to do with my own shortcomings–not leaning in, or opening up to people about what kind of person I really was with my closest friends and relationships. I defined success as being a top broker in the country, or in the office, and that’s all I needed to know to keep me in line with my job.

Now it’s more about making sure that the relationships I have, and people really get to know who I am and I truly feel like I’m also doing my part in allowing them to know who I am. So, again, relationships take time. That’s why I think it’s too early to say. I think until those relationships really mature in this new space that we’re operating in, I won’t fully feel like I’m successful.

 

Barry Savage:

Well, I think for both of us as we go through our careers success is different, right? You know when we’re both young and didn’t have families career would define your success, right? Now it’s somewhat secondary.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Let’s talk about that a little bit because obviously, I know you both are family men and I am as well, and our families know each other. How do you want your kids to see you down the road? For me, I’m always lead by example person, right? I look at my kids and I think they’re going to emulate what I do way more than what I say or tell them to do. So, I’m curious about that from your side. How do you look at that when it comes to your kids and how they look at you?

 

Mehdi Shokri:

That’s a heavy question.

I didn’t have a father growing up, so just going right to the core of it – I want to be available. My entire intention when I became a dad was that I was going to be there all the time. So, now to some extent I maybe overcompensate because I’m a head coach for both of my boys and they’re playing more soccer than I ever realized would ever happen. So, my part-time job is really coaching kids’ soccer.

I do it because what I’m hoping for is that not only that I’m available but to your point that you lead by example and you want them to see when you commit yourself to something you do what you say and you’re accountable and you’re reliable, and you’re not a flake. All those things are part of why I’m doing this and why stick to it and I don’t try to veer off and do a half-ass job at anything that I’m involved with them, but I think I also want them to feel safe. I feel like if I’m there I don’t necessarily need to tell them what to do, but I want them to know that at this age, in particular, my kids are so young, that the feeling of safety is everything which I don’t feel like I had that necessarily as a kid. So, again compensating a little bit for my own childhood trauma. I think for me, that’s what I’m really trying to do as a parent right now more than anything – is just to give them that feeling that no matter what there’s not only somebody there but they’re in a safe place–that they can be themselves, they can talk to me and they can do whatever they need really.

 

Jason Boudreau:

That’s awesome, thank you for sharing.

 

Barry Savage:

I think it’s kind of along the same lines as what Medhi said. It is to be there.  There is a neighbor of mine who is in our industry, and I would say he has been on the same journey as us, but he’s probably eight to nine years ahead of us in terms of how they set up. I remember one of the things that he said to me when he saw me walk the girls to school and he said, “Those are the things that you need to enjoy because you’ll be amazed at how fast it’ll be gone”. And so that sticks with you, you want to make sure that you’re there, that you’re around, that you can participate.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Yes, totally and that’s certainly one of the advantages that being an entrepreneur lends itself that you can build that flexibility into your life and at the same time it’s always that dangerous line. You commit to something too much and all of a sudden, you’re way on the other side.

 

Barry Savage:

I agree. When I made the move from working at a development company to doing stuff on my own, I definitely worked more on my own, but it also at the same time gave me more time to spend with the kids. So, those are the trade-offs you make, right? You at home, it’s nine o’clock at night and you’re working, but you don’t necessarily feel bad about it because then you’re able to take the kids to soccer, you’re able to go to their swimming lessons. Whereas if you’re at a development company you’re there for a specified period of time and you never have that flexibility.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Yes, totally!

We’re closing in on our time together. So, continuing the family conversation. The last question I love to ask entrepreneurs is if they are talking to the next generation or your kids and sharing about life aspirations, what are some of the things that you would share with them, or maybe you do share with them now about the future or about what they want to achieve in their life?

 

Barry Savage:

I think the main thing is that they have to be passionate about something that they love to do and when they start off whatever their job is at the beginning the amount that they’re getting paid should be irrelevant. The question should be do you love doing it? And if you do then you’re going to be able to make a career out of it. If you don’t love doing it, you shouldn’t be doing it. It doesn’t matter how much you’re getting paid for it because you’re never going to be satisfied and you’re never going to be happy.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

I hundred percent agree. I wish I had that kind of guidance because I was naturally a good academic student in high school and university but coming from a Persian background and having parents who generally want you to be a lawyer or a doctor. Basically, it was very much in my mind that those were called the defined successful jobs that you could have. I think I’ll go a bit further than what where Barry was going with. Maybe it’s too early now but to your point, we’re talking about them a bit older is to be true to themselves and be comfortable with who they are. I know how much harder it gets when you become a teenager and people start to judge you and start to question whether or not you’re weird or you’re cool or whatever it is. So, I think it’s just that again that feeling of just knowing that they’re safe like I said earlier and that they are a hundred percent good the way they are. I think when you get to that point when you’re passionate about something you can only have clarity in mind about what you’re passionate about and that you’re comfortable with who you are. So, I guess setting them up for that moment, right? As I said, I thought I knew what I wanted to do when I was younger, but I know now I was confused because I didn’t really know if I could be myself in a lot of ways.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Interesting.

 

Barry Savage:

It’s funny because when I was growing up one of the things I loved was maps, right? So, when I was going through my education, I actually wasn’t going to be a planner or to be doing development or doing real estate even. When I was going through university that wasn’t what my end goal was. I always thought that I was going to go with land use, but I was more going towards land use in terms of forestry and getting it to grow to master’s in forestry. It’s amazing how things changed after one Co-op semester. I was working in a planning department and that totally changed what I wanted to do and that’s what I was saying – I knew what my passion was maps and that type of planning, right? But you never know where it’s going to take you to.

 

Jason Boudreau:

That’s great. Thanks for sharing that. Well, I think we’ll end it there on a high note because I mean I love hearing about your entrepreneurial journey, and then I love for our listeners to learn about who are the people behind the businesses that we talk about on these podcasts. I’m really grateful that you took the time here and thank you for sharing and being so open. It’s been great having you.

 

Mehdi Shokri:

Thanks. It was great. I appreciate it.

 

Barry Savage:

Thank you.

 

Jason Boudreau:

Stay tuned for the next episode of the Polestar Podcast by VELA Wealth.